Happiness Hive Podcast Episode 76 - Mel Kettle
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[00:00:00] (Intro) Hi, welcome to the Happiness Hive podcast. I'm Catherine Bowyer, and I am completely fascinated by people and what motivates them. I've spent the past three and a half decades specializing in mindset and human behaviour, and I've helped thousands of people to create happy and amazing lives. And now I am super excited to be chatting with women from around the world who I have secret, and to be honest, not so secret crushes on. They're women who inspire me. I'm intrigued as to how they do life and what makes them tick. I want to find out their magic formula that makes them who they are. And at the end of the episode, I'd love for you to say, I'd like a little bit of what she's having. The conversations are real and raw. They're full of passion, inspiration, and lots of fun and nothing is off limits. So grab yourself a cuppa or pop on your trackie and go for a walk and join us for today's chat. [00:01:00] There may just be that pearl of wisdom you need to hear. So let's shimmy on over and get started.
[00:01:06] I am looking forward to chatting with another Rockstar woman that I know, and I'm really keen for you to know her too. Today's guest is Mel Mel Kettle, and Mel is a food loving book reading, beachgoer who lives on the Sunshine coast of Australia. So it already sounds like we've got lots in common.
[00:01:28] We've also got some career crossovers as well that Mel is a trusted mentor to executives and leaders and a highly sought after speaker and trainer on leadership, communication and menopause at work, which I know is gonna be really interesting for a lot of the listeners. After surviving the debilitating effects of work-related loneliness, stress and burnout in her late twenties, Mel believes that self-leadership is essential for creating real connection and sustained [00:02:00] engagement. And this belief forms the the foundation of a couple of the key programs that Mel runs, which is her Connected Leaders and Thriving Leaders program.
[00:02:11] So since, twice since twenty-Twenty-two twenty-twenty-three, Mel's been recognised by the LeadersHum as one of the top 200 biggest voices in leadership. And she's only one of seven Aussies on the list. She's the author of two books. She's, she's got the best-selling fully connected and the social association.
[00:02:35] And she's also the host of a podcast, this Connected Life. Oh my goodness, Mel. I am so excited to chat with you about all those things that you do. How are you?
[00:02:47] Oh, I'm so great. Thank you so much. And something that isn't in there, two things. I lived in Canberra for five years as well when I went to uni in the eighties and the early nineties.
[00:02:57] Yeah. But more importantly, I always wanted [00:03:00] to be a rock star. So whenever I get introduced as a rock star, I'm like, yes, that's what I wanted to do. But I didn't have the self-confidence and I had actually no idea of how to go about it. So it never happened. And I,
[00:03:11] and you, you know, that's really interesting. And on a completer side, my husband wanted to be an a, a geologist. No, he wanted to be a tradie. What did he, no, there was two things. He wanted to be a geologist and a tradie, and he said, I didn't know how to be either of those. So I went to university and became a industrial arts teacher. Yeah, like, okay, but isn't it interesting when opportunities, when we had this kind of little passion or inkling. Mm. And we don't know how to pursue that. So anyway.
[00:03:44] And I also think it's expectations as well. Yeah. Like I, when I was growing up, I've always been very smart and so it was just assumed that I would go to university. And when I broached the concept of maybe I wouldn't go, oh my [00:04:00] god. I, I've never seen my parents so upset or angry and just there was no choice. Like as far as I was concerned, I had to go to uni. It's just what I was raised to do.
[00:04:12] Oh my gosh. That's an interesting little thing 'cause I was gonna ask you Yeah. Like when I was doing your intro, I was gonna say, , I get the impression you're a bit of a high achiever and you were saying that some of those expectations growing up, I had the flip side of that.
[00:04:24] It was almost like, well, women, or girls at that stage go to secretarial college, teaching or nursing, and so go and be a secretary was kind of the message that I, mm. It's interesting, isn't it, about those expectations when we're growing up.
[00:04:42] It is, and I feel like the reasons that my parents were so determined that my brother and I both go to university is because Dad went to university and really saw the value and the benefit of it.
[00:04:54] And Mum didn't. Mum went to school at 15 in the early [00:05:00] 1950s and because she just didn't have an opportunity to have education beyond that, she needed to go out and work. And her mother and father had four children and the youngest was 12, 14 years younger than Mum. And so she needed to be contributing to the household income.
[00:05:17] But also, you know, in the early fifties it wasn't normal for women to have more of an education than than past the age of sort of 14 to 16. And so Mum was always, incredibly determined that her children would have more opportunities than she did when it came to education. And so when I broached the fact that maybe I didn't wanna go to uni, oh my God, I was slapped down so fast, it wasn't even funny.
[00:05:42] Your head would spin. And so I finished high school, I went overseas on a rotary exchange. And then I went to uni and I went to ANU in Canberra, did a degree in economics, absolutely hated it. And dropped out halfway through. And I remember when I dropped out, I [00:06:00] dropped out booked a ticket back overseas and then I told my parents and I remember saying to them.
[00:06:10] It's, I've, it's all booked. It's all done. I've made the decision, I've dropped out of uni. I can't go back this year. And you know, they were saying, well, why don't you just go overseas for a couple of months and come back and finish the degree? And I'm like, no, it's soul destroying. So ended up going overseas for a year, came back, went back to go back to uni and now I've got two master's degrees as well.
[00:06:29] So it's not like I didn't want to be educated because I'm really like I understand the value of learning and I'll always be a lifelong learner. It just took me a while to find my thing. And I think that's something that is so, there's so many expectations on kids today and to go to university and if you haven't found your thing and if you don't know what you're doing, then take a gap year or two or three or five, because if university is what you [00:07:00] want, it won't be going anywhere.
[00:07:02] Do you know what I, I think that's really interesting from a perspective like we don't always know our thing, even as adults. Right. And it can change and it can morph, and that's completely okay. I see a lot of people that I work with in the corporate space, and I call it the golden handcuffs, that they've got good jobs, that they're getting paid really well, they've got great superannuation, but they hate their job.
[00:07:29] Yeah. And they won't leave because of all the conditions. They're miserable. Like you said, it's soul destroying, but they turn up every day and they're not bringing the best versions of themselves, and it's about that freedom of being able to trust.
[00:07:46] Absolutely.
[00:07:47] Still be compensated. But do what they love.
[00:07:50] And I said that in the public sector as well. Like I joined the public sector. I lived in Sydney, finished uni, finished travelling, moved to Sydney, then I moved to Queensland in [00:08:00] 2000. And in 2001 I got a job in the Queensland public sector. And I remember phoning my Dad and saying, I've just become a public servant.
[00:08:07] And he laughed his head off and said, you won't last. And I said, I don't plan to last. Yeah. I said, I deliberately chose this job because I want flexi time. I'd burned out two years earlier or a year earlier. I was still recovering from that, and I said, I just need a job that's not high stress, high hours so that I've got time to look after myself and get my health back on track.
[00:08:29] And I said, I've got a plan. I'm staying in the public sector for five years and then I'll do something else. And I said, I'm not prepared to get caught up in that cycle of long service leave. And so many people I know who are in the public sector were it's seven years or eight years, really miserable and didn't wanna leave because at 10 years they could get their three months long service leave and they felt that they were owed that, which is a whole other conversation. What are you owed?
[00:08:57] Yes.
[00:08:57] Don't get me started.
[00:08:58] Yes. And you know what I say that I worked [00:09:00] in government and a lot of my, a lot of my clients, my corporate work is back with the public sector. Mm-Hmm. I, chose not to continue working there, because I just felt that, there was more, there was different opportunities.
[00:09:17] Yeah. And things also, my kids were little as well. I do you know what pops into my head at the moment. There's a couple of women that I work with in the public sector space and they said, yep, sure. And they're at that executive leadership level and they're talking about a lot of people there for the wrong reasons.
[00:09:37] Yeah. But there's a lot of people there for the right reasons as well. And there's a, they really wanna be able to foster, it has a career path for people that want that career path. And I think it's a really refreshing way to look at it. It's not like government is shit for everybody, but it's about, I think when we get [00:10:00] back to what is it that, and for some of it will be corporate-corporate, some of it will be running our own business. Some of it will be not doing anything. Yeah.
[00:10:09] And I absolutely agree with you. Like I know a lot of people in the public sector in senior roles, and that's their calling. Their purpose in life is to serve and they absolutely love the work they do. They see the value in it. And I certainly know, you know, for the majority of the five and a half years that I was in the Queensland public sector, I loved the work I did.
[00:10:30] I loved the people I did it with. I worked for the Office of Fair Trading and we delivered communication campaigns to improve the lives of businesses and consumers. And I can really clearly see the value and the benefit that we provided, and I loved that. But I also got to a point where I didn't love working for somebody else. I had other priorities.
[00:10:51] I think that's hard.
[00:10:52] And you know, the main reason I quit to start my own business is because I wanted 12 weeks of holidays a year. And so, [00:11:00] and, and I wanted to have more freedom and flexibility. I also applied for part-time work, and I was told no. And the unofficial reason was because I didn't have children and the head of HR at the time couldn't understand why a woman in her mid-thirties would wanna work part-time that when she didn't have children.
[00:11:19] And so I thought, well, this is the kind of archaic place. You know, do I really wanna be here? But you know, other things and other priorities.
[00:11:28] Clashing values.
[00:11:30] So I left. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[00:11:31] Clashing values. And you got what you, you wanted I'm I, the reason I left was I had a great job. I worked at the taxation office and it is kind of thing, I'm not a tax person, I'm not great with numbers, but there was I worked there in the eighties and the nineties and early 2000 and there was huge about change and being able to look after their people and whole modernization piece.[00:12:00]
[00:12:00] So I learned all my skills when I was working there. It was about change, but I'd outgrown, I'd kind of got to the point where I had my kids and I really, my emphasis on life had changed and it was no longer meeting my needs, but also wanted to be my own boss of things that.
[00:12:18] Yeah, I totally agree with you. Like I always knew that I would work for myself at some stage. Yeah, it happened probably 10 years earlier than I thought it would. But I don't regret that. Like I've loved being self-employed. It's provided me with so many opportunities. But I also think, you know, to your point, as we get older, the different ages and stages we have in life, our priorities change.
[00:12:40] And it's really important to recognise that. Like a lot of the work I do with my clients is teaching them and sharing with them that. You need to really be clear on what your values are and your values as you go through life, they're, they're pretty standard. They don't really change, but the priorities that are linked to those values, they do change, and that is completely [00:13:00] okay, as long as you recognize it and make the necessary adjustments to your life to acknowledge that. And you know my priorities.
[00:13:08] I see it's going different chapters. Yes, different chapters of life. Their life story. We've got those different chapters and where are the priorities? And it's okay for those chapters to change.
[00:13:20] They should change. Yeah. If you've got the same priorities at 50 that you had at 20, why? Like seriously, why? Yeah. Yeah. I've got a couple of friends who have gone through divorces and marriage and marriage and relationship breakdowns recently because there's one person in the relationship who still has their twenty-year-old priorities of going out every weekend and partying.
[00:13:43] When they home, they've got a partner and young children, and so they just haven't accepted that their priorities need to change, need to shift away from the partying all the time to being a parent. Mm.
[00:13:58] And we're not the [00:14:00] same people. Like I'm very, very different. Like you said at your, at my core, I'm still the same person, but I am different from when I was in my twenties and thirties and forties, and now that I'm, Hmm. Heading towards my sixties. It's a different Yeah, I know, but do you know what? I feel that I'm coming into my best years. Every each year is my best year. Same. But I really feel very, very different because I've been able to share a lot of those. That's stuff that I've been hanging onto and just not really giving as big a shit as I used to about people's expectations of me.
[00:14:39] Totally agree. Totally agree. And I feel like with age for me, so much more confident and, aware of what's important to me.
[00:14:49] Yeah. You work a lot with women in the, in the corporate space around that leadership. That's your gig is around leadership and communication and self-leadership.
[00:14:59] [00:15:00] What are some of the challenges you find that, the, the women that you work with experience in that space?
[00:15:06] Oh, look, I, I work with business owner, female business owners and female thought leaders and female women executives, and all of them struggle to prioritize themselves. They struggle to put their personal self-care needs ahead of other things because they are being, because society tells them that it's selfish.
[00:15:28] Although, thankfully, I feel like that's slowly changing. Yeah. But they also are inherently, I don't wanna say they're people pleasers, but they, they struggle, they, they want to be, they don't know how to get to what they want because they often don't recognise that if they don't put themselves first and they don't get the sleep they need, put healthy boundaries in place, say no to things. Sometimes set limits on, you know, toxic people and toxic behaviours and other things that we need to be [00:16:00] setting limits on. Then they just find it hard to do that because as women, particularly a lot of the women I work with are. From sort of late forties through to sixties, a lot of Gen X women, we've been brought up to serve others.
[00:16:14] And so it's really, really difficult to put yourself first and to shift that mindset of I am worthy and self-care should be important to me, when you've always been taught that you need to serve others. And I'm not saying that you can't continue to serve others, but if you don't serve yourself first, you're gonna be pretty shit at serving others down the track.
[00:16:35] Yeah, it's like that old, it's not old, it's still current. The oxygen mask in the aeroplane. It is. And that, it's really, that analogy of it is, you know, if you don't put yours on first, you can't then help other people. And the one that I like to use is, we've all got phones. We recharge our phones at least once a day. Mine is three times a day 'cause it's old and it's a bit crappy. So why don't we recharge our bodies and our [00:17:00] minds and our brains as frequently as we recharge our phone? How can you do something small? To just recharge that for yourself.
[00:17:07] Yeah. What are some tips to be able to do that? What are some really practical things that women can do?
[00:17:15] I think the first thing you need to figure out is what are your priorities? What's most important to you, and how can you ensure that you at focus your time and your attention and your energy on doing things that will help you meet those priorities and achieve those priorities.
[00:17:33] I think the other thing we need to do, and this is so often not spoken about, is every day we should be doing things that bring us joy. Yeah. Because, and it doesn't need to be a big thing, like two of the things that bring me the most joy walking on the beach and having a swim and sitting on the daybed with a good book and a cup of tea.
[00:17:52] I do one of those two things, if not both of them, every single day, and sometimes I only get 10 minutes on the day bed with a cup of [00:18:00] tea and a good book. Sometimes I might get an hour. Some days I don't get to the beach because I've got too many things going on, or the weather's rubbish. Some days I might do a quick and dirty dash to the beach, have a quick swim, and be back at my desk within half an hour. I'm very lucky. I live a two-minute drive from many beautiful beaches. And so I can do that, but. For a long, long time, I didn't get to the beach because I lived in Brisbane where there were no beaches apart from the fake beach at South Bank, which was just drama to get to with traffic and parking and all the children.
[00:18:32] So,
[00:18:34] so, and do you know what I'm, yeah. I'm a strong believer in a big, big believer in self-awareness. Yeah. Self-discovery. So knowing yourself and what things do light you up and what things drain your energy and you know, it's, I, I'm just queen of practicality and simplicity. I don't like to overcomplicate things, but [00:19:00] it's about what, what do you enjoy doing?
[00:19:02] Do more of that. Yeah. What don't you enjoy doing? Try and do less of that. Less of that. Yeah. If you have to do it, then how can you just get through it and suck it up? Yeah, yeah. And, and things. So I really love that, that, that practical about looking after yourself, but in ways that you can bring into your daily routine. It doesn't have to be this big, you know, change of life stuff, but it might be for some people.
[00:19:30] Yeah, it might be. Or it might be just something as simple as, you know, going out for a walk on your own in the morning or, you know, if you're at the stage of life where you've got young children, maybe you just get up 10 minutes earlier before anybody else does, or maybe you, you know, there's many different things you can do just to find that thing that gives you joy.
[00:19:50] And I feel like covid saps the joy out of a lot of people, and a lot of people haven't figured out how to get it back yet. I agree. And so the number [00:20:00] one thing I think you can be doing is that I think the other thing that you need to be doing is, and I'm such a big advocate for this, but if you haven't had a doctor's appointment in over a year with blood tests and the physical health checks, then go and do that.
[00:20:14] Because there can be so many underlying things that you're not aware of and that don't show up until it's almost too late. So if you've got anything you know, in your body or your brain and you've got a gut feeling about something, or you just think something's not quite right, whether it's a funny spot on your skin or a lump or a bump or something that's not healing, or you just don't feel like yourself, get it checked out.
[00:20:39] Yeah, because you know when you've got that knowledge of what if it's something, if it's something awful, or if it's something unexpected, a diagnosis means you can do something about it.
[00:20:51] Yeah. And when you were saying about, you know, recharging yourself like our, our phones, we recharge, I also think [00:21:00] about that analogy, if we were given a car when we were born and we had to have that car for our lifetime, we would make sure that that was maintained and, you know, polished and looked after. Yeah. Our physical bodies, our emotional, our mental well-being is really, really important. And we've got this lifetime, I was gonna say this one lifetime.
[00:21:24] I believe we've got more than one, but in this lifetime. And it's about looking after the vessel that we're in so we can actually, we don't have our health, we can't do anything else? I don't.
[00:21:35] Absolutely. I don't. And it's also about, it's about taking responsibility for yourself and your life. In all aspects of it. Don't wait for other people to give you things or to ask you things or to offer you things. Yeah. You need to be doing that yourself.
[00:21:50] Now what about, because you do a lot of work with, about menopause in the workplace as well. Yeah. What is, tell us more about that [00:22:00] because a lot of the listeners will be listening, they'll be turning the volume up right now for the things that you are finding and what are some things that they can do around that.
[00:22:09] So menopause is something that I've been talking about for a very long time. So I went through perimenopause. I, I came off the pill when I was forty-two or forty-three, so about 10, 10, 11 years ago. And I gained 10 kilos in the first 10 weeks. And I had all of the, I had extreme anxiety.
[00:22:28] I became quite forgetful, had all. You know, many of the symptoms, hot flashes took a while to come, but they eventually did. Mm-Hmm. And I remember going to my GP, who I'd been seeing for about 12 years, and I said to her, all this stuff's going on. I've gained tons of weight. I've done nothing differently.
[00:22:46] I wonder whether I'm going through early menopause. And she said, how old are you? And I said, I think I said I was forty-three. And she said, no, you're way too young. My average patient's fifty-one come back then and I'll just give you HRT. I'm like, well, that's really [00:23:00] unhelpful. So I went away, did some research, created a blog about it where I shared my experience that was hacked last year, so I've lost it, which is a bit sad.
[00:23:09] Damn. I know. I'm pretty, pretty annoyed about that. But anyway, but I realized that there was no information about it that wasn't written by men or written in very medical language. And so fortunately today, 10 years later, there's so many great resources for women going through menopause.
[00:23:27] But one of the things that I've noticed that still doesn't happen is there's not a lot of workplaces that support that, that have programs in place or policies in place to support the women in their workplace who are going through menopause.
[00:23:40] It is such a taboo topic in so many circles still. And so it's just not talked about. And so one of the areas where I'm doing a lot of work and where I love to work is to work with organizations to provide them with some guidance around how they can start having menopause conversations in the workplace.
[00:23:58] And I'm not suggesting [00:24:00] that they get into all the gory details, but even just things like, creating an organization where you can have tricky and difficult and uncomfortable conversations and nobody blinks an eye. Menopause is just one of the things going on in our lives, like everybody's got stuff going on, and so let's talk about all of the stuff.
[00:24:20] Menopause is particularly of interest to me because I've gone through it and I've seen how detrimental it can be to so many women. Mm. It's really important, I think as well to remember that approximately 20 to 25 percent of people in most workplaces will be going through menopause.
[00:24:36] So if you've got women in your workplace who are in their forties, up to probably fifty-five fifty-eight, they'll be presumed. You can make an assumption that they are either going through menopause or impacted in some way by the symptoms, and that's a huge portion of many workforces today.
[00:24:56] Tell me Mel. I see that a lot and I don't think, I think it's [00:25:00] much, it's becoming, it's not mainstream to talk about it, I don't believe. No, it's not. I think it's becoming, we are talking about it more, about talking about it more, if that makes sense. Women that I coach, they will talk to me about their symptoms and how do they actually manage that in the workplace.
[00:25:20] And a lot of what I see and have experienced myself is that brain fog. The, so women who have been very, very capable now going through it's just like far out. I can't even get my thoughts and my words. And so a loss in confidence around as a result of that brain fog. The physical just, when they're in a meeting and they're having the hot sweats and the, the things about how do they manage that and trying to normalise that.
[00:25:54] And that's just one element of different things we go through. So what are some tips that would help [00:26:00] women who are experiencing some of those physical, mental, emotional symptoms that they can, or, or work one thing that women can do to help it? Yeah. And then maybe a tip that. Anybody here in workplaces that can help their workplaces to manage it?
[00:26:13] I think I'm gonna start with the workplace. I think it's really important as leaders that you learn to recognise patterns. And so look at your staff and your colleagues and your family and your friends, and if you notice a behaviour change that's different, to what you, you are used to with them, and it might be forgetfulness, it might be they're more anxious.
[00:26:34] It might be they're not completing their work in the way that they used to. It might be that they turn up to work looking a bit disheveled, then ask the question. Are you okay? Are you okay? How can I help you? I noticed that you are not your usual insert the correct adjective itself. Yeah. How can I support you? How can I help you?
[00:26:56] Don't come out and say, oh, you look like you're going through menopause. [00:27:00] Because not everybody's gonna want to suggest that, but that's a question that we should be asking, whether it's a woman who you suspect is going through menopause or whether it's any other staff member, because
[00:27:11] anything. I think that should be like we're talking about menopause, you could insert anything.
[00:27:16] I think that's really important about the, the patterns, the behaviours and checking in. It's, it's, it's, that's a minimum what leaders should doing.
[00:27:24] It's, it's, I ran a session for an organisation last year on why we need to talk about menopausal work. And one of the questions was, why are we talking about this?
[00:27:32] Everyone's got their shit, deal with it. And I said, yeah, everyone does have their shit and we need to be talking about it more. This is not, I mean, the more we can talk about difficult things, the more everybody benefits because yeah.
[00:27:46] You know, whether it's you're going through a relationship breakdown, whether you're going through, cancer or some other illness, whether you are dealing with aging parents and really stressed about them, whether you're the parent of young [00:28:00] children, whether you're the parent of teenagers and all those hormones at the same time as you've got all your hormones going on.
[00:28:06] Yeah. Why aren't we just showing more care and consideration? So simple questions are things that leaders and organisations should be doing. The other thing I think that organisations should be doing and just providing resources on your intranet about what menopause is and where people can go to get more information.
[00:28:27] And even if that information is, and I've got some resources on my website, you're very welcome to download them. They're free. It talks about some books that I've found really helpful, some podcasts that I've found really helpful. The Australasian Menopause Society that has a directory of doctors in Australia and New Zealand who specialize in women's health and menopause.
[00:28:50] It and, and my advice for women who are going through it, is get some professional medical support if you don't have a doctor. If your doctor does what my doctor did, which [00:29:00] was say, you're too young, go away, find another one. And the Australasian Menopause Society, if you're in Australia and New Zealand will be very, very helpful for that.
[00:29:09] If you're elsewhere, then Google your Menopause Society and see if they've got a directory of doctors and find someone.
[00:29:16] I would. I would a hundred percent all the things you've said there as well, but take your, it gets back to that point you said it before about accountability and responsibility.
[00:29:28] I had a similar experience with my usual doctor was away and I went and saw a stand-in doctor or woman about getting some blood tests done and she made me feel crappy and shitty about why I was doing that. And I ended up saying to her like, this is not helpful at all. I dunno where this inner strength came from, but it was just like, this is my health.
[00:29:54] This is what I want. And I would never, ever see that doctor again. But it was about taking [00:30:00] control and finding the information there. There is a lot more information out there at the moment. But do something and do something that fits for you is would be my suggestion. Because a lot of women, it's like childbirth. They compare their stories and they're not always, you know, what works for somebody else might not work for you. So it's about really, finding out what, what's going on for you. So, yeah.
[00:30:28] And all of our bodies are different. And so your metaphors experience won't be mine and it won't be mother's, and it won't be the same as your best friend.
[00:30:35] It won't even be the same as your twin sister. So you've gotta work out what's gonna work for you. And you know, we know from research that 80% of women going through menopause experience symptoms that have detrimental to their lives in some way. Yeah. Some are more, way more serious and detrimental than others.
[00:30:54] And then there's 20% of women who sail through with nothing apart from their period slowing and stopping. [00:31:00] That was not me. That was so not me.
[00:31:03] And do you know what I think that's just like in life generally. Yeah. Don't compare ourselves because our symptoms are our symptoms to us. Yeah. And they might not be as bad or as severe as somebody else's, but they're still severe for us.
[00:31:18] Yeah. Or they, they're still whatever they are for us. Absolutely. I'm gonna, yeah. I'm going to change tact at the, the end. Like bringing the, the chat to a close. What, what fills your cup. You talked about
[00:31:32] Oh, going to beach. Beach reading. Yeah. Beach, reading, time with people who I love hanging out with my husband.
[00:31:38] Yeah, just a bit of family time. Time with good friends. Yeah. Yeah. But also as an introvert, if I don't get a certain number of hours a week without talking to people, then look out. Not gonna be pretty,
[00:31:53] you know, my husband said to me the other day, I, I'm an extrovert.
[00:31:56] Really?
[00:31:57] He said, don't you? Yeah, yeah.[00:32:00]
[00:32:00] He's off the scale extrovert. And he said to me, don't I get bored and lonely at home, working from home? And I'm going, oh my God. I have the perfect balance because I get, I get to hang out with people online. I get to go out and see clients as well, but I also get that space, like as an extrovert, I still need that space. Yeah. For me, where I'm not interrupted or not interrupting others.
[00:32:25] Yes. Yeah. I'm extremely social, but I know that, you know, for example, every second weekend I need to have a day where I don't talk to anyone or do anything. Yeah. And it's quite convenient because my husband works every second Sunday, so every second Sunday I just hang out at home on my own.
[00:32:40] And I might go to the beach, or I might have a coffee with somebody, but nine times outta 10, I'm just like, no, this is my time to read a book. That's your time. Do a bit of housework if I feel like it, which I don't normally. You know, just go for a walk, hang out on my own, enjoy my company, recharge my personal battery [00:33:00] for the week ahead.
[00:33:01] Actually, do you know what? That's really important too, because when we, I guess looping back to when you said about you know, doing some things, self-care, doing what you lights you up, that doesn't always mean that something that lights us up is high energy, high connection. For some people it might be, but for other people, what lights them up might actually be, removing themselves from. Yeah. People and whatever it is for you is completely okay. So where can, what's next for you? You've got a lot on your plate. What's, what's happening next for you?
[00:33:37] Yeah, so I'm currently diving into the world of online courses. Yeah, I've got an online program called Thriving Leaders and I'm running three times this year, March, June and September.
[00:33:48] And I'm creating a couple of online programs that are self-paced. I've got one on healthy boundaries. And the next one I'm doing is on self-confidence. How do you smash that imposter syndrome [00:34:00] and achieve what you want?
[00:34:02] Yeah. Gosh, that's a, that's a whole topic on its own, isn't it? Yes. It's imposter syndrome. I find a lot of the women I work with experience that and that's there's lots of layers to it.
[00:34:16] Interestingly, when we were offline, you asked if I worked with men or just with women, and I do mostly work with women, but I have had a few male clients who I've coached and they have had so much imposter syndrome.
[00:34:29] It was really enlightening to me. And another friend of mine runs women's, she used to run women's only programs to help increase confidence, and one of her corporate clients said, can you come and run this for men as well? And she'll only do single sex groups. So she'll only do women only or men only.
[00:34:46] Yeah. And she put up a post on Facebook a year or two ago and said, one of the questions I ask people at the beginning of the session is what are your worries? What keeps you awake at night? What are your worries and your fears? And what are you scared of? And she said, [00:35:00] can you work out which of these came from men and which of these came from women?
[00:35:03] And they were the same. Yeah. So I just found that really enlightening as well, because so often we think it's only women with imposter syndrome, but it's not.
[00:35:12] And I think it, I, I experienced that too in the workplace. And sometimes it manifests itself differently and yes. It, it's, so yes, I think it is there for a lot.
[00:35:27] But how they manage it. Yeah. Is sometimes do, and as I'm actually thinking that, talking that aloud, I don't think there's a stereotypical way that blokes manage it versus women. I think there's differences in how people manage it. Yeah, because I, because what I was gonna do, I know we're coming to, to the end, but what I was going to do when you were ask you is when you were talking about, some of the confidence things that women experience in the [00:36:00] workplace. Some of the things that women experience in the workplace, I find some women, it's almost like the pendulum swings so far that they think they have to be more like the, the stereotypical male in the workplace and even loath to even go down that path. But they, the, the pendulum swings so far that they're just not who they're, sorry, I'm not even gonna
[00:36:26] Yeah, no, I agree with you.
[00:36:27] 'cause I've got a million thoughts in my head.
[00:36:29] I agree with you. And you know, I just think about the power suits that I used to wear. Yeah. And I'd go to meetings and I'd be the only woman in the room. And you know, I, I've always looked a lot younger than I am.
[00:36:40] And so I'd be in these meeting rooms with senior leaders in the construction industry or in the building industry. And I'd be in my mid-thirties, and I looked like I was about twenty-three. And so I dressed up in my, you know, in my confidence boosting clothing, which I don't own [00:37:00] a suit these days, and I haven't worn one in years.
[00:37:02] And I go to meetings now in, you know, usually in jeans and a t-shirt and it's just, I might sometimes wear a dress, but it, it, and that comes from confidence as well. Yeah.
[00:37:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gosh, so many things. So I hope that the listeners, I'm sure they would've found lots and lots of pearls of wisdom dropping.
[00:37:26] Where can our listeners find you?
[00:37:28] Through my website is the easiest MelKettle.com, and if you Google me, I own lots of pages on Google. So MelKettle.com will give you, and we'll have the details in the show notes.
[00:37:40] Yeah, we'll have and on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitternow Twitter now X, MelKettle, everywhere.
[00:37:48] Cool. That's nice and easy. So thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that. And thank you to the gorgeous audience for tuning in and listening.
[00:37:58] So [00:38:00] happiness-hive.com, you can also sign up to my newsletter and get little drops of happiness into your inbox and be the first to find out about what's happening. So Mel, thank you, hugs, happiness to you and have a wonderful, wonderful day.
[00:38:15] Thanks very much Catherine. You too. Thanks for having me on.
[00:38:19]
[00:38:19] Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode. You can spread the love by sharing it with a friend so she can have a little bit of what we had today. And don't forget to rate and review, so we can get it into as many hearts and ears as possible. You can keep the conversation going over on my socials at The Happiness Hive. And if you'd like more high vibe happiness in your life, come and join me in our community of inspired and motivated women, where you'll have everything that you need to be truly happy and bounce out of bed every day, living and loving your best and most beautiful life. To find out more, pop over to the Happiness Hive website [00:39:00] and click on the link Working with Catherine. Until next time, big hugs and happiness.
