Establishing an Emotional Intelligence Mindset with Debbie Payne


In this episode of the Happiness Hive Podcast, Catherine chats to Debbie Payne about starting over the journey of life at 60! She shares about how she is (re)discovering her unique talents and gifts, in what she describes as her most creative stage of life yet. Listen as Catherine and Debbie uncover why growing and trying new things is something all women should do no matter what your age.

In this episode you’ll also hear:
– Growing up in Canada and a generation that raised children in a whole different way
– the tragic event that taught Debbie how relationships are more important than material possessions
– the importance of having a positive outlook on life no matter your past experiences
– why parenting is never about making the right or wrong choice but
– knowing what you want and following your own blueprint… and so much more!

Join Catherine’s membership The Happiness Lounge here

Connect with Catherine here:

Connect with Debbie Payne here:
‘No Thanks I’m Full’ book
IG – @debbiepayne__

This podcast is produced by Nikki Voxx from Quintessential Being

Read Full Transcript

I am looking forward to today's guest Debbie Payne. This is the first time we've actually connected in virtual in person. We've connected through social media, and we have kind of gotten to know each other there. We're in very similar spaces, and we just kind of had that same vibe about it. And I really wanted to find out about Debbie and how she does life. So welcome very much to the happiness hive podcast. How are you?


Oh, I'm great. Thank you so much, Catherine, for having me. It's my pleasure being here with you. Yes.


And we've had just a little pre chat, and so much to unpack. So I'm going to what I like to do is to start by just finding out from our guests what stage of life they're at what's kind of going on for them in life at the moment. So maybe just didn't start it. Where do you live? Where are you living?


Okay, so I am in Sarnia, Ontario, which is a small city population about 75,000. i We're a border city. So we have the Blue Water Bridge. So from Sarnia you take the bridge over, you're in Michigan, Port Huron, Detroit is an hour away from here just to give you an idea.


So you're in Canada, and with Jesse right yet, we're


just on the silver border town. And in years gone by it used to be a great opportunity to go shopping and all that but our dollar is taking a big hit right now.


Yeah. Oh my gosh. And we were just talking about Aussies and Canadians like we're really good buddies. But our dollars


yeah. Oh, like why I'm going to Vegas this leaving this weekend for you know, five days with some you know, friends in that. Yes. It's a it's a girl getaway.


Oh my gosh, I've been to Vegas. I love Oh, I


can't wait. I've I've only been once I was there 20 years ago. So it's gonna be I'm gonna see a lot of changes there for sure. Yeah, I'm excited to go. Yeah. But back to the question. Yes, I think that's yeah, see, this is what happens when you get older too, is that you're talking and then you completely forget what we


did, right. I'm sorry, what stage of life you're at?


Yeah. So right now I'm born and raised from Sarnia moved away when my parents split up briefly, for YC, briefly, probably for 10 to 12 years, came back to Sarnia at 30. And bought my first house. And yeah, you know, got into my real estate business. Prior to that in Hamilton, Ontario, which is closer to Toronto, and the stage of life that I'm at right now. Well, I would say honestly, captured at 61 I feel that I'm really coming into a whole different era, journey, Discovery periods, so to speak. And, and, and I'm really excited about it, and nervous and scared at the same time. But it really makes me appreciate and realise that, you know, it doesn't matter how old we are, as far as you know, looking for that, what next chapter in our life, discovering what talents gifts that we possess, because as a mother, you know, for years, you're busy raising children or a child and you're working or building your career. And let's face it, most women while they're doing all that don't have a lot of free time to really tap into, you know, some of their own gifts because you know, you really are you're you're you're being on more, especially when your children are younger, etc. So I don't know, I just feel like I'll put this and Fancy Free and looking to dive in all or nothing. I'm an all or nothing kind of girl.


Oh, Debbie. I love that. And I got goosebumps when you said that you're coming into this new phase of life. And it doesn't matter what age you're at. It's not necessarily an age thing. You're coming into a newness, there's a new beginnings and that can happen in your 20s can happen in your teens that can happen in your 30s and 40s. But it sounds exciting. It sounds I want to dip into what that is kind of looking like for you. But it's kind of come about from not necessarily like you've had some adversity as well, haven't you? You've had some challenges. But before we get into that as well, what was it like growing up for you? You said your parents were separated. What was growing up like was what was home like


to be honest with you and we'll talk about the book a little bit later. But I, me and my siblings, there was four of us and you know our parents as you know We're from a whole different generation, a whole different way of thinking a whole different way of raising children, etc. And unfortunately, for both of my parents in different ways, they had passed down generational, you know, trauma. And, you know, that really did trickle, it can't help but affect your children. My mother, unfortunately, you know, was diagnosed with severe depression. And back in those days, they didn't really have a lot of understanding. And I remember my mother having to go to the hospital for days to give shock treatment. And I remember her coming back home, and just not being there for a few days and just being totally removed. Almost now, maybe if that's


yeah, no, I Yes, I could.


Yeah. And my father was a it was, you know, wasn't as severe as he wasn't. He didn't have depression. He was a workaholic. And he had, you know, dysfunctions that were passed down, especially being a man that he was not really emotionally available, you know, because men back that especially we're not emotionally available, not to, especially women, I think women will, you know, women were thought of a lot differently as well in the past generation. And that really played into my parents conflict as well, because my mother, as much as she had her own, you know, struggles with her depression, and they really didn't know how to treat it properly back then. They,


they don't imagine that, like, far out. That's,


oh, it's just luck. But like, I just remember she was in the bedroom a lot of the time, because they just heavily medicated you. Right? You're just checking it out? Yeah. But anyways, so yes, my parents went out we were I was young, I was nine, my sister younger sister was seven. And my brother was 13 at the time, and my older sister stayed in Sarnia. Luckily, she had friends that took her in the father took Gail and she was only 15. So my mother took the three of us to Chatham, Ontario, which is another even smaller city and in Sarnia, and things Yeah, unfortunately, things got progressively worse. Because as a child, you're not, you know, I didn't recognise we were on welfare. And I knew we didn't have a lot. I knew we didn't have a lot of money. But I didn't know how bad it was, obviously, until now, you know, as a full grown woman looking back, but, you know, there was, it wasn't all bad. I mean, I remember, you know, going out and playing, you know, the days where you're, you know, see at home and when it's dark, you know, when you felt safer. It parents


very different time, isn't it? Only different


time, you know, so yeah, it wasn't all bad by any means. It just, it taught me at a very, very young age, Catherine, I think really, I think I started developing emotional my EQ skills,


emotional intelligence, I'll talk about that. But you shouldn't really


navigate like, as a child, when you're when you're in that situation where both parents have different degrees, you really have to learn quickly, facial expressions, and you know, just how to stay in the neutral zone. You know what I mean? I was the middle child. So right in the middle, my older sister, older brother, and then there was me and my younger sister. So interesting childhood, for sure. Interesting life, for sure. But I think it all makes us who we are, I think no matter what we go through, good, bad and, and, and anything else that comes in between, just you know, if we can look at it as a learning experience, and grow from it, I think that's really what helps us become better human beings and embrace life on a different level. So, yeah, I probably I think that's


where and I think that's where you and I connected as well, because we do do similar sort of kind of stuff in our business, but we've got that same outlook of life about, you know, we're not saying things, you know, tough things don't happen. But it's about how do we view those and how can we move forward from them? And what they'd be thing for me is about what can I learn? What is this situation trying to teach me? And when I'm repeating the same things, it's like, Oh, my God, Catherine, just get the lesson and move on.


And you're right lightbulb key. Throwing that? Yeah. Okay, until you learn it. And let's be honest, I'm sure you can agree with this. There are times that lessons need to be learned, but we're not ready to learn them. Yeah.


Oh, absolutely. Yeah.


And I've been there several times. So that's why I can honestly tell you that, you know, I think when happens when we go through that Catherine is it teaches us a lot about having more empathy. For people, you know, we're also different. And yet we're also connected. You know, we're also different in so many ways, but yet we're so similar in ways that matter, in my opinion, you know, as far as you know, we all we all crave love, we all want connection. You know, we all want to be happy, we want a joyful life, we want to be loved, like, you know, and I think before I go on too much about it all, I'm really feeling it, and I'm sure you are, and most of us are, that we are in a very different world right now. For sure. And, you know, for me, I guess I'm just trying to, you know, instead of panicking about it all or or running for the hills, so to speak, I think as an individual, we all have that responsibility of, okay, so what can I do to make a difference? Right? What what you know what I mean, because I believe we all can make a difference, in our own way,


do you know, I am very much about that, as well. And sort of part of my mission is to help make the world a better place. But to do that one to do that, through helping individuals to be better within themselves. Debbie, before we jumped forward a little bit, I did want to just flag the concept that you mentioned that your parents both had some intergenerational trauma, and that's a thing, like some of our listeners will be very familiar with that, that sometimes we feel stuff and we experienced stuff that isn't necessarily a response to our here. And now that we actually take on, you know, stuff from our lineage as well. And sometimes it can go back many, many lineages. And this isn't even just, you know, past life stuff. This is about our lineage, can our parents and their parents it can be passed down? And it's no blame or anything, but sometimes it don't help to understand some of those things that we can't understand. If that, yeah, I just wanted to flag that because I'm sure some of the listeners and we're going on what is that? What is that?


And I think most of us, if we were all honest, you know, and I'm not suggesting that, you know, some of us were fortunate, maybe, you know, to have parents that were both healthy emotions, which is a gift that for sure. But I think generally speaking, and I may be off, but I don't think I am, I think most of us have experienced whether it started through our childhood, being born into, you know, passed out generational, you know, trauma. And it's funny, you know, that really made me understand more as I got older, just exactly why it happens. Like why was, you know, when I started when I became an adult, and you know, I guess really, especially this last, you know, 10 years of my life, right, I'm 61 now, but at 50 is a really pivotal moment for all of us. I think that 50 For me, the you know, some things that happened, I lost to people I loved, and it really made me aware of okay, so you know, what, how about, let's sit down and really look at where I came from, how was I feeling about it? How I dealt with all that came with it. And although I did break the cycle with my son, I have a son is 26 now and I became a single mother at age 37. Yeah, baby was only two. So and the reason why I became a single mother was because I was determined to give my son the life that I unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to have at least one parent that was there as a steady grounded force of love and and support. Yeah, you know, and saying in the marriage or wasn't married, but we were whatever saying in the relationship with his father would not have allowed him to become the man that he is today. Yeah, no. So for that, I must tell you, no matter what happens, what I accomplished or don't accomplish, and like having raising my son has been the biggest accomplishment I've ever done.


And it's interesting, isn't it when as you say that I reflect on my life and many of the listeners will will know my mum passed away the day before my 12th birthday. And that put me into that was trauma in my life and the trajectory of my life from that. And we didn't talk about it. So Mum, mum was 36 when she passed away, and we had no counselling, so this was in the 70s. We had no counselling as I had to order Brothers, we just got on with life. So I became this really capable, strong woman on the external, but on the internal, it was just like, holy shit. Like, I don't even know how to do life. But I was doing like so there was this kind of duality of strength, but I feel like my life's about to crumble. So it took me probably, you know, 10 years in that state before I went, you know what, this is not how I want to live. And I made some very significant changes in life. And when I had my kids, I was very, very intentional about how to raise the kids even though there was days that I just thought no idea I do all the


right a mum we are we all have those days.


Yes. And it's just like, oh God, am I done that bloody dumbass thing again. But I was very intentional, that we would talk about things we Yes. Because the stuff that was lacking. For me, I was kind of like, well, I don't want that, but lacking for my kids. And there'll be stuff that I've done that they'll go, Oh, Jesus, we're not going to do that with our kids. Because, you know, it's, it's an evolution.


For sure. You know, you bring up a really a very good, interesting, valuable point here about, it's not about making a wrong or right, it's about choosing, like you just said choosing to raise our children in an in a more productive, secure, stable way, that that they're able to talk to us about anything that they're able to come to what's okay, because back again, we were we were I week done sex was not I didn't even know what a menstrual cycle was, until I got it. Oh, no, you know, and that's where I was, I thought, oh my god, I bleed to death. Like, that's how far gone like, like, Thank God for some of the changes that have occurred, you know, with education and understanding of letting letting children know what's going to happen with their bodies. Even back in school, even back and published, so I don't know if you remember, but one candidate here anyways, we never, they never talked about any of it.


They started to they started to, and it was like scary. It wasn't kind of like this natural and stuff. It was just like, oh, that's, that's scary.


You're gonna get it was because of the way it was explained. Like everything was so in this in this and structured and non emotional. And they right, let's be honest, back then, I mean, health education. I mean, they went to places now that, you know, we would like we'd be laughing about it. But back then it was just, this is taboo. And that is taboo. And so we were very ignorant, so to speak in, in so many ways, which has, you know, a double edged sword there, because some of it for me personally was the naivety of it all, which I think helped me in some ways, you know? And then on the opposite way, could it have helped us to be a little more prepared? For sure. So it's, you know, I think each generation brings with this different struggles and also different insights on on, you know, how can we, how can we do better? How can, you know, not not do better? I think that's the wrong word. How can we help our children grow and learn in a different environment, perhaps and what we learned it, and not to say that it was all bad by any means. But I think we find from one extreme, though, I think to another


case, it's very different. But you know what, I love what you were saying there. And this is something I'm very conscious about, too, is it's not about doing things better. I'm not always about doing things better. But when I'm reflecting on my life, and when I'm working with my clients and coaching, I always look at get them to say, what is it that's working? Well? What are the themes that are working well, that the positives, the bits that I can celebrate? What's not working as well as I would like, and is there anything that I need to change? So it's not about just change for the sake of change? I'm all about transformation. I'm absolutely about transformation. But I'm not about transformation, just for the sake of it.


Right? Things are working out. It makes sense. It's got to be because everybody's different. What works for one isn't going to work for gender. Right, exactly. Right. And like you've just said, you know, okay, well, it's good that you do that, because I think it helps focus on the positives. Yeah. Yeah, first before you know what I mean, like, we all have areas, you know, let's be honest, none of us are perfect. There's just some days. Oh, no, really. But you know what I mean, and having a sense of humour again, like, that's what I love about you as well. I mean, there are reasons why we've connected, right? You got to be able to laugh at yourself, you got to be able to take the good and the bad with greatest self, and not take life too seriously,


though, I know, oh, my gosh, do you know what I'm generally pretty light hearted. But there are times when I do get very serious and a bit too, over responsible for stuff. And I have to have a bit of a pep talk with myself to just chill out, like, just chill out.


Yeah, so it's all about balance. To get you to see what you just shared with me. I'm the total opposite. I'm the type that I jump in. I without doing some, you know, research that I should be doing. I'm an all or nothing. And I think what happens for me it works only because it's part of who I am. It's part like, like, I don't I'm not analytical. I'm not very techie. So, you know, we I think too, we learn in life, to embrace what we all should anyways, that's what I'm learning more and more as we get older, is to embrace your strengths and that and what really fuels your soul. And, and the stuff that you don't like doing, right? The stuff that you don't like doing or that you know, there's push and pull there. Instead of trying to make yourself like it or learn it. I've learned as I've gotten older, you know what, it's okay. Focus on what you want to do, like what you've What brings you happiness and fuels your soul and lights you up and hire out someone part time to do the techie stuff that like for me anyways. Like, I think it's almost like a light bulb just goes off one day for like it did for me that why am I be so hard on myself? Because I feel that I should be good at all that I want. Yeah, right. It's so true. It's so so true. And I don't know, part of that is being a woman, I don't know, part of that, perhaps is is socially in breaded in his from a young age, especially in our generation, where, you know, we were taught to want more, we were taught that we could do anything, you know what I mean? Like, I remember in high school, you know, I took woodworking, I was such a rebel even back then, in grade nine, I took woodworking because I didn't want to be a dressmaker. I didn't want to do home economics. I took typing, I think I was the only person in the woman in the class that failed at blast, like why the Secretary like, you know, so I'm, you know, we could go on and on and talk about, you know, so many positive changes that have happened for women, which I'm grateful, and I'm sure you are to help. But you know, getting back to life and living like you said, I think all of us are entitled, and I say that with with warmth and sincerity. We're all entitled to be living our best life. And you know, that you know, and I think that it's again, getting rid of that back voice in your head or or society saying that no, no, this is, this is where you should be fitting in, or this is where you, you should be feeling something and I'm learning as I'm getting older. And that's why I'm thinking while I better get her done before, you know, life is short, right? You know, you get to the point in life where you realise that, you know, I live two thirds of my life and so far, probably, you know, yeah. And what else more do I want to do? And I think for your listeners that are listening, I say this that don't have regrets. Love it. Okay, right. Don't have regrets. I've made my share of mistakes. And when you read my friends, you will find out. But I have no regrets. Because everything that I have gone through every decision that I've made, right, wrong or indifferent, has led me to who I am today. And that's what I think, right? We all I want that for everyone. I want everyone to feel that they are worthy and that they can live you know their best line and that's where we're so we're so connected on what we both do in that manner.


Absolutely. And that comes for me to living our best life doesn't mean that everything is perfect and rosy and glitters and sparkles all the time. But it's about So what I have experienced is when I really know myself, and what is it that I am good at? What is it that I value? What do I want in life? Then? And what brings me joy and fulfilment, really the My Blueprint is knowing what I want, knowing who I am, and then being able to do more of those things that bring me fulfilment. Sorry, I'm giving away you know, coaching clients, but it's, like, it's not


good to share, you know, what, and also and you I'm sure, your your agreements, I think we're all at a point to and what we're both doing is, well, for me, it's it's women only on my podcast that, you know, that I'm starting to is women from all different backgrounds, all different ages, all from all over the world, sharing what they've learned, not just in business as an as an entrepreneur, or whatever career or work field they may be in. But also personal lessons learned. Like, I'm not suggesting that, you know, we all share and there's a kumbaya, and we all get it right away. And we all know that, yeah, that'll work for me, too. But what I can say is this, I wish that when I was a younger woman, you know, as you know, we were the same age group, there was none of this accessibility that there is now on social media platforms. Now, I will admit, I think there's been a bad in social media, I see the good in it, and we focus on the good on it. But I certainly don't go down that rabbit hole, where any negativity pops its ugly head up or any controversial, like, you know, it's a safe space, but it's also a predatorial space for some people that can get very, very nasty meat and those, I just totally deflect. And yeah, because we don't know.


Do you know what I noticed? In the world? Yeah, yeah, dude, I notice with social media as well, it is great. I mean, we we connected, it's beautiful. platform, but I think it also brings in a lot of comparison, itis self doubt, no, seeing somebody doing something and then going, and I've fallen into this as well going, Oh, my God, like, you know, they're got X, Y and Zed and I can't do


it online. What's wrong with me? What's What's it? And again, you're right, we all do it. It's human nature to compare.


I stay in my lane, I kind of go yep, I recognising that. But that's part of the selflessness. My patterns, I know my questions. And I choose that again, it's a very conscious decision, what I choose to listen to, to watch to connect with I'm very, very discerning Debbie, that I probably wasn't as much in younger year younger ages. But now I choose the people in my life because I want to hang out with them. My podcast is about women who inspire me about just how they do lives. So same as you, there will be pearls of wisdom that will dry I know there are pearls of wisdom that will drop but it's not here about telling people you should do it. What Debbie and I share our experiences. And I wish I just wished that I had had something as well, that I couldn't have been somebody that was navigating not even exactly what I was doing. But what are some strategies? It wasn't until I was exposed to you know, some of my studies through psychology and starting to learn to do coaching. I was just like, Oh my God, there is some resources here that are really really helpful. Why the fuck didn't anybody tell me that? I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready that that was part of my life journey. I accept that. And one of the things I do Debbie is I honour my past and I never used to I always used to say all that shit that happened in the past, right? Yeah, it is. My life is helping humans.


Yes. Are you are you good, fat or indifferent? I was I'll be honest with you up, I was ashamed of my childhood. And even my closest friends I never talked about my childhood. They did they knew very little about you know and then it because obviously if I was ashamed that I came from such dysfunction and there was you know, abuse and and you know, if I really had to be and that's how the book was will roll into the book. That's how the book came about was finally at the age of 50. I had dealt with A lot of things already from my past, I had broken the cycle for my son, you know, passing down generational trauma, so to speak. And I And I'm not suggesting I agree with you that I think that it's in your it's in your genes. It is passed down. But yeah, you're absolutely is it is. So that's Yeah, I think that's where it really my life as far as grasping and accepting and, and letting go of that shame and embracing and not being, you know, ashamed of where I came from, because I realised that that you know, you know, no matter what we do, no matter what mistakes we make, no matter what we're born into, that doesn't define you that does not dictate or should not dictate who you become. And that really was the inspiration and my, the, because believe me, I never wanted to be a writer. You know, I didn't. I started journaling at 50 and then off and on over 10 years, because life happens. When you read the book. You're here. Yeah, we had we had a house buyer. Well, I guess it's been about 11 years ago, and we lost just about everything. Oh, no, no, but you know what, here's the deal. A silver lining came out of this because I had Austin my son, he was alone in the house and me and my husband were out on a date. And he was only 15 at the time. We just laughed, we only been gone for half an hour, 45 minutes. And I got a call from my son and he was upset I could hear fire engines in the background. And I said he said mom, the house is on fire. You think you're you know you just got to take off I got here in this right? Part. So bottom line is this through it all. And believe me, we're born with nothing and we leave with nothing. And as much as I lost some material things that meant something to me because they were left my sister had given me some things before she passed. That was hard and it wasn't it had nothing to do with the material things of soft but what they meant to me right but anyways losing everything other than my Christmas decorations which I was so I was just so over the moon about that taught me that after three days after they had done like they had the fire chief here and they didn't you know, they found the cause was electrical and they attached garage. He told me the fire chief said I'm not sure if you you're aware but had your son not come upstairs because we're in a raised ranch and gotten was hungry for a bite to eat and did not hear sizzling through the through the wall. Like there's like a wall and the garage door from the garage and entrance into the house. The house my car was parked in the garage, and five minutes later the house would have blew up with him in it. So lesson there as difficult and stressful and displaced. We were and all we have are the clothes on our backs. And because you know the smoke damage, toxic taxes like it yeah, anyways, you'll read about it in the in the blog, but that was a very valuable lesson for me. Because I understood very clearly as much as you know, we all go through life and say, Ah yeah, they don't like that. You know, I'm not materialistic. I'm gonna be honest. I like nice, nice. I mean, I've worked hard in my life. I like driving nice vehicles. I like having a nice home I'd like you know, I'm not ashamed of that. However, it was a very humbling moment for me to understand that at the end of the day, how close I was to losing my one and only child and that everything else really didn't matter. We were out of our house for six months they had to they tore my our house down to a shell that down to the studs. They had to rip up the walls, the floor, I mean everything. And as again, as I look back, you could tell I can I can hear it in my voice. I can't stress it at all, but gratitude that I didn't lose my one and my one only child. You know, really this all set this stuff up that our material stuff means nothing to us. It really does and it's our relationships with the people that we love. And that was a really pivotal moment. I think every anything that we go through but especially when we go through something like that like something that's very traumatising. It's our choice what how we look at it you can you can either look at it as oh my god, poor me and all that but we had to go through and I lost all that. I lost my favourite quote and a lot like you know what, at the end of the day, we're all born with nothing and you leave with nothing. So you better make sure in between that you love the people like you said that you love You tell them, he loved them, you show them you love them? Because that's what Levine is all about. It's our relationships, right?


Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And we went through it and not a not a loss like that, but a very financial loss. And there was a number of years where it was very, very stressful. And I'd always said, my family is the most important thing that when we were faced with losing, you know, likely to lose things that was just like, actually, my family really is the the most important thing and it's, you know, sometimes we need that little bit of a shake up,


we just need to, you know, I'm not suggesting, or I think that everybody should go through No, no,


I'm saying no, no, by any means.


But But what you just said is very true, though, is that in whatever relation, that that we go through that sense of whether it's financial loss, material loss, loss of control, which was really hard to learn the last five years, it's again, it's just grasping, you know, not what it's taken. But what has been given?


Yeah, yeah. I like that. And it's also a process, isn't it? This isn't just like, Oh, no doubt, I'm fine. There would have been no, absolutely.


Yes, yeah. I could talk about this now. Let love in years, you know, it's been 11 years.


But what is it given? I think that's what is the silver lining? I'm gonna fast forward and change track a little bit. You mentioned at the beginning of our chat, that you're really excited about your next phase of life. What's exciting you? What's that about? What's the excitement?


Well, I think, you know, I like challenges. For sure. Definitely, am not one to shy away from a challenge. And I think I'm learning that about myself that it's not so much the challenge, I think it's the fact that I, I like to push myself out of my comfort zone. i Because, you know, that's how I've grown. And that's how I been able to accomplish some things that I have in my life already is to let go of that fear of, well, what if I fail? What if nobody likes me? What about you know, this or that or whatever, you can talk yourself out of doing just about anything in life, okay. But my attitude is, as long as I'm breathing, as long as I can physically and mentally live my life. I'm going to do it with everything I got. And I'm at a phase now where I feel that I'm ready to teach others things that I wish, you know, I had some insight myself when I was a younger woman growing up, you know, and again, I certainly don't pretend to know everything because I got I don't I there's still so much more to learn. But you know, I think it's it, you know, I really find it interesting. The concept for me now is, you know, I've done I've had this successful 30 plus year as a REMAX agent, I you know, it really doesn't matter. But you know, I won awards and Hall of Famer and all that, and I'm very proud of myself that I accomplished that, but where it all that has led me, I believe, is to a point now in my life where I'm more competent, and I have no fear of now. putting it out there authentically it because I think in our world right now, we are lacking, we are craving, authenticity. And what you see is what you get with me and I've always been this way. And I think that that, you know, I just feel but there's more of me to give now, in different ways. You know, it's funny that now I become we become a teacher's right as we get older. And I can't wait for the interesting more conversations that I'm going to have with women. I can't wait to learn more myself along the journey. I can't wait to laugh more, to feel more to make, you know to have tears shed happy and sad. Like, like, to me living life is just living it all. But doing it together and just embracing whatever comes our way and looking at it as Okay, okay, so maybe this didn't go quite the way I thought it would. What, what what has it What has it now inspired me to do? Like I really think that life takes you on different curves and different, you know, oopsie doopsie You know, you didn't you didn't see that when come in didja. It does. And there there are reasons for it. And I think that reason. It is an arbour sponsibility to listen to our inner self, to acknowledge what's happening and the changes that are occurring within ourselves, and to have the courage to go forward and say, Okay, I'm now ready, let's do it.


I hear a real freedom, when you're sharing that, and I was gonna say My wish for other people listening women listening is that they also feel that sense of freedom in their own lives wherever they're at. And I was about to say, you know, if we can help fast track, but I don't think it is about helping people fast track, because they have their own lessons, they have their own life, they have their own curriculum, it might just be my guessing in doing what I do, and especially with the podcast is just hearing just different women about how they do life, and there might be some, just little pearls that we'll drop out of that, that might help individuals where they're in their life, it's not about saying here, do it our way, like I really am very, I get, I kind of, I don't get angry with a lot of things. But I do get very frustrated. When people say do this, do that there's a template, there's a fucking, you know, a formula that you've got to follow and blah, blah, blah. It's like the formula is your formula. That's,


that's the formula. That's right. In all we do, sharing these authentic having these authentic conversations with one another, okay? is really a gift. Yes. You know, to ourselves into one another, right? I mean, and you're right, not not, not what works for you works for me what, but it's kind of like sharing, oh, I didn't look at it, I never thought about it. That's an interesting, that's an interesting way to look at it. Like, I think it's having the ability, and bringing women together and empowering them to understand and recognise that we are capable, more than capable of living our true life with all that we have all that we are and all that we will become. Because I think that we are constantly in transition. I think that we are constantly as human beings, in that change of, you know, Nothing ever stays the same. Your relationships don't stay the same. You don't stay the same. You know, you as the more experiences, the more things that you go through in life, that it's going to change it and how it changes you is really up to us.


Oh my gosh, sorry. We were just just coming to the close of the podcast and technical difficulties. There was a bit of a Gremlins in the system. So anyway, Debbie, tell me tell me about your book. You mentioned in your book, what's your book called?


My books called no pain some fall? And? No. Yeah, well, you know, I just thought that Yeah. Sometimes in life, you get to a point you say no, thanks. So book. Yeah, I guess my memoir. It's a shame. It's, I'm a woman that gets to the point pretty quickly. I've had people read the book, and they they thoroughly enjoyed it. But they said, Debbie, I wish I had gone into a little bit more detail. But I'm, I also believe that yeah, now sometimes there's things that you need to leave to people.


That's right. You get. Yeah,


exactly. So yeah, no, thanks. I've bought a memoir. It's just really about having, you know, learning how to overcome adversities how it could gives you it can give you strength you never knew you had also finding unconditional love in many different ways. I read a chapter about my dog, how special and how much love she gave us. She passed away a year ago, and I'm so glad about the chapter before she passed. So I think yeah, so at that, yeah, it's on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, you know, pretty good. We'll


have all the details in the show notes. Yeah, it's


all good. So yeah, oh, my God. Now, yeah. So that then the podcasts the real deal with that is going to be starting at the end of March. And in the beyond the different platforms as well. And I can't wait, I can't wait to have you on as a guest, my friend. And all I can say is I know you're gonna wrap things up here. This has been a real pleasure I feel that we could just talk on and on and on for sure. And you know it but you know that that it that's it that's a good thing, you know, when you can have conversations with people and just soak it all up, and share and laugh. That's what it's about. That's what loving is all about. So, thank you again for having me on. It's been my pleasure to be here and I look forward to interviewing you Row on my podcast.


I'll be in a flip seat. Yeah, and I'm so grateful dead. This is just a beautiful and I knew it would be. I knew just from having connected with you on socials and then getting to know you now there is so much more that we didn't talk about. But people can read the book and I'm sure when they start following you, they'll start to learn more about your journey. So, Hudson, big happiness to you. And thank you very much for your time.


Thank you again, Catherine.